REVIEW OF INFALLIBLE BY HANS KUNG?

Infallible? the excellent book by Hans Kung puts the final nail in the coffin for the Catholic notion of an infallible Church led by an infallible pope.

The view that the pope and the councils of the Church can make infallible statements on dogma but not on morality is dubious for you when dogmas are made to make the Church more moral and devoted to God they cannot be separated from morality (page 33). Catholic morals are based on dogma. For example, the Church says that murder is wrong not because it takes a life but because it is doing what only God has the right to do.

There are many teachings which are regarded to be official infallible teachings of the Church which have never been infallibly defined (page 47). For example, the Church has never defined that murdering the innocent is immoral. The Church then teaches that teachings can be infallible without being proclaimed infallible. This is understandable because dogmas are not made infallible dogmas until it is necessary to counteract those who foment large-scale opposition to the dogmas. This leads Kung to conclude that the ban on contraception must be infallible doctrine (page 59) for never ever until the 1960’s did any Catholic theologian or priest or teacher or pope support it (page 48, 53 and 54). The papacy always condemned it and this was the constant teaching of the Church (page 54). He rejects the ban as ridiculous which is why he does not believe the Church is really infallible.
 
Christian Order VOL 35 Issue 12 reminds us that the Vatican II Document Lumen Gentium 25 says that the Church must submit to the decisions and teachings of the Roman Pontiff even when he is not speaking ex cathedra or as infallible. Canon 752 of the new code of Canon Law says this as well. The Church teaches that doctrines are only made infallible when it is clear that the Church believes them already. Because the Church universally believed and taught until the sixties that contraception was gravely sinful it is certain the teaching is infallible and if the pope declares it to be infallible all he is doing is recognising that the teaching is the teaching of God. The pope can issue an encyclical that he doesn’t declare infallible but which can contain infallible doctrine because he uses infallible sources. The Church teaches that all its teaching is right and it only declares a doctrine infallible when it is being questioned by dissidents in the Church. Pope Paul VI wrote Humanae Vitae which condemned artificial contraception and it was infallible even though it didn’t invoke this charism and it was infallible because it reiterated the constant teaching and belief of the Church in a serious matter. A few weeks before he published the encyclical he declared in his Credo of the People of God that the Church believes all that the Church proposes for belief even if it comes from the ordinary magisterium meaning when the Church gives teaching that is not explicitly declared to be infallible (page 610).

Because Pius IX was able to infallibly declare that the Virgin Mary was conceived immaculate before the Church declared him infallible in 1870, it is obvious that the pope was indicating that the ordinary teaching of the pope and the Church is without error as well as teachings he explicitly declares to be infallible. How else could he claim to be infallible without having the Church decide that he was infallible and officially declare it first? This means then that papal teaching banning birth control is infallible. But popes have contradicted each other.
 
Hans Kung wonders if the pope could create a dogma out of a teaching that the Church entirely or mostly rejects (Infallible? page 88). In other words, if the pope decided to make a dogma of contraception being totally immoral which nobody in the Church believes and the Church goes against him which side do we take? The Catholic answer would have to be the pope for he is the rock the Church is built on and at one time Peter stood alone and was the true Church with Jesus against a world that rejected their gospel.

Kung observed that the Council of Trent attacked the Protestant doctrine of salvation by faith alone it never defined what it meant exactly and did not understand that the Protestants meant complete trust by faith and repentance on the saviour (page 141). Even Rome agrees with that in principle – its problem is that Protestantism thinks trusting the once is enough. But nevertheless the Church made a blunder and proved it could not be infallible.

Kung then denies that the Bible is revelation and sees it not as revelation but as a man’s interpretation of revelation. This view is totally unbiblical. He makes an issue out of the fact that the Bible did not come out of heaven but books don’t have to come that way to be revelations. He then says that it is a mistake to teach the infallible Bible that reveals Christ instead of Christ (page 173). But how can you preach Christ without the written word of God? Without the word of God you are trusting in what men said about Christ instead of what Christ as God said about himself. The Church itself uses this argument against Protestant Bible-believers.
 
BOOKS CONSULTED
 
A CONCISE HISTORY OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH, Thomas Bokenkotter, Image Books, New York, 1979
A HANDBOOK ON THE PAPACY, William Shaw Kerr, Marshall Morgan & Scott, London, 1962
A WOMAN RIDES THE BEAST, Dave Hunt Harvest House Eugene Oregon 1994
ALL ONE BODY – WHY DON’T WE AGREE? Erwin W Lutzer, Tyndale, Illinois, 1989
ANTICHRIST IS HE HERE OR IS HE TO COME? Protestant Truth Society, London
APOLOGIA PRO VITA SUA, John Henry Newman (Cardinal), Everyman’s Library, London/New York, 1955
BELIEVING IN GOD, PJ McGrath, Millington Books in Association with Wolfhound, Dublin, 1995
BURNING TRUTHS, Basil Morahan, Western People Printing, Ballina, 1993
CATHOLICISM, Richard P McBrien, HarperSanFrancisco, New York, 1994
CATHOLICISM AND CHRISTIANITY, Cecil John Cadoux, George Allen & Unwin Ltd, 1928
CATHOLICISM AND FUNDAMENTALISM, Karl Keating, Ignatius Press, San Francisco, 1988
CHRISTIAN ORDER Number 12 Vol 35 Fr Paul Crane 53 Penerley Road, Catford, London, SE6 2LH
DAWN OR TWILIGHT? HM Carson, IVP, Leicester, 1976
DIFFICULTIES, Mgr Ronald Knox and Sir Arnold Lunn, Eyre & Spottiswoode, London, 1958
ENCOUNTERS OF THE FOURTH KIND, Dr RJ Hymers, Bible Voice, Inc, Van Nuys, CA, 1976
FROM ROME TO CHRIST, J Ward, Irish Church Missions, Dublin
FUTURIST OR HISTORICIST? Basil C Mowll, Protestant Truth Society, London
HANDBOOK TO THE CONTROVERSY WITH ROME, Karl Von Hase, Vols 1 and 2, The Religious Tract Society, London, 1906
HANS KUNG HIS WORK AND HIS WAY, Hermann Haring and Karl-Josef Kuschel, Fount-Collins, London, 1979
HITLER’S POPE, THE SECRET HISTORY OF PIUS XII, John Cornwell, Viking, London, LONDON 1999
HOW SURE ARE THE FOUNDATIONS? Colin Badger, Wayside Press, Canada
INFALLIBILITY IN THE CHURCH, Patrick Crowley, CTS, London, 1982
INFALLIBLE? Hans Kung, Collins, London, 1980
IS THE PAPACY PREDICTED BY ST PAUL? Bishop Christopher Wordsworth, The Harrison Trust, Kent, 1985
LECTURES AND REPLIES, Thomas Carr, Archbishop of Melbourne, Melbourne, 1907
NO LIONS IN THE HIERARCHY, Fr Joseph Dunn, Columba Press, Dublin, 1994
PAPAL SIN, STRUCTURES OF DECEIT, Garry Wills, Darton Longman and Todd, London, 2000
PETER AND THE OTHERS, Rev FH Kinch MA, Nelson & Knox Ltd, Townhall Street, Belfast
POPE FICTION, Patrick Madrid, Basilica Press, San Diego California 1999
PUTTING AWAY CHILDISH THINGS, Uta Ranke-Heinemann, HarperCollins, San Francisco, 1994
REASON AND BELIEF, Brand Blanschard, George Allen & Unwin Ltd, London, 1974
REASONS FOR HOPE, Editor Jeffrey A Mirus, Christendom College Press, Virginia, 1982
ROMAN CATHOLIC CLAIMS, Charles Gore MA, Longmans, London, 1894
ROMAN CATHOLIC OBJECTIONS ANSWERED, Rev H O Lindsay, John T Drought Ltd, Dublin
ROMAN CATHOLICISM, Lorraine Boettner, Presbyterian and Reformed Publishing Company, Phillipsburg, NJ, 1962
SECRETS OF ROMANISM, Joseph Zacchello, Loizeaux Brothers, New Jersey, 1984
ST PETER AND ROME, J B S, Irish Church Missions, Dublin
THE CHURCH AND INFALLIBILITY, B C Butler, The Catholic Book Club, London, undated
THE EARLY CHURCH, Henry Chadwick, Pelican, Middlesex, 1987
THE LATE GREAT PLANET EARTH, Hal Lindsay, Lakeland, London, 1974
THE PAPACY IN PROPHECY! Christadelphian Press, West Beach S A, 1986
THE PAPACY ITS HISTORY AND DOGMAS, Leopold D E Smith, Protestant Truth Society, London
THE PETRINE CLAIMS OF ROME, Canon JE Oulton DD, John T Drought Ltd, Dublin
THE PRIMITIVE FAITH AND ROMAN CATHOLIC DEVELOPMENTS, Rev John A Gregg, BD, APCK, Dublin, 1928
THE SHE-POPE, Peter Stanford, William Hienemann, Random House, London, 1998
THE VATICAN PAPERS, Nino Lo Bello, New English Library, Sevenoaks, Kent, 1982
TRADITIONAL DOCTRINES OF THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH EXAMINED, Rev CCJ Butlin, Protestant Truth Society, London
VICARS OF CHRIST, Peter de Rosa, Corgi, London, 1993
WAS PETER THE FIRST POPE? J Bredin, Evangelical Protestant Society, Belfast
WHATEVER HAPPENED TO HEAVEN?, Dave Hunt, Harvest House, Eugene, Oregon, 1988
 
NOTE: RECOMMENDED BOOK, ROME HAS SPOKEN
 
ROME HAS SPOKEN, A GUIDE TO FORGOTTEN PAPAL STATEMENTS AND HOW THEY HAVE CHANGED THROUGH THE CENTURIES, Maureen Fiedler and Linda Rabben (Editors), Crossroad Publishing, New York, 1998
 
This book is a goldmine for the person who wants to shake off the guilt of disobeying the pope. It is liberty to the slavery the pope wants to subject them to. It is basically a collection of hard to come by official Church texts that show that the popes did not always teach the same thing.
 
The book proves that ecumenical councils regarded some popes as heretics and excommunicated them (page 13). We are informed that statements from the early Church that seem to indicate the bishop of Rome is the head of the Church and keeps to the truth may have been forged for in the mid-eighth century a lot of forging and interfering with texts by copyists took place in order to help the papacy take over the Church (page 12). The book quotes the decree of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith that states that Pope John Paul II made a statement that belongs to the faith and which is therefore without error and irreformable and irreversible when he said the Church had no authority to ordain women (page 17). The doctrine of St Thomas Aquinas and Pope Innocent III that you should deny Christ if your conscience commands it but you will still be damned for doing so is spelled out in this book (page 27). Very reasonable and kindly men these two! Chapter 4 contains commands from the popes who wanted heretics persecuted. Innocent III said this was to be a perpetual law and that even the house a heretic lived in was to be burned down. Pius VI in 1791 condemned encouraging people to think for themselves and St Pius X opposed the separation of Church and State in 1906. Benedict XIV forbade Jews and Christians to live in the same cities in 1751 in his encyclical A Quo Primum (page 71). Pius XI in Mortalium Annos in 1928 said that Catholics cannot attend Protestant worship and unity can only happen if the Protestants return to the true Church. The papacy used all its power, secular and spiritual, to maintain the practice of buying and selling slaves even if they were Catholics (page 88). The Holy Office of the evil Blessed Pope Pius IX in 1866 stated that slavery was acceptable in divine and natural law and should be (page 84).
 
One omission in the book is that Pope John Paul II now forbids capital punishment though tradition and the Bible command it. Catholics say that he is not saying capital punishment is wrong full stop but only that it is not necessary today and the Bible regulations are only meant to be carried out if the Church runs the state which it does not. The capital laws of the Bible were never necessary and God could not object to Christians using the state to kill people their God wants dead like heretics, homosexuals and adulterers. For him to object now, would be the same as saying he was wrong to go so far. If killing those people was right then, then it is always right. And especially today when we have tremendously better resources for establishing the guilt of a felon than what existed in the days God demanded liberal executing by stoning of certain kinds of “sinners”. Also when he demanded death not by strangulation but by stoning – an exceptionally cruel method – it shows God’s full and unhesitant approval of capital punishment. It is not a necessary evil but something DESIRABLE. The pope is both condoning the crime of capital punishment and saying he does not – another crime. The Catholic view that capital punishment was encouraged by God to protect the state and its members is not true because the Bible laws could have done that without commanding the killing of those people and also because the Bible says these killings are punishment. Now could they be punishment if you need them to protect others? That would not be punishment but self-defence. The laws of the Bible had nothing to do with protecting but about showing the people who was boss, God and about God getting his own back on those who ignored his law.
 
THE WEB

Pope John Paul II condemned as an immoral and traitorous and heretical pope
www.trosch.org

Here is a site that shows how Catholic scholars lie and distort the facts about how history disproves their religion
http://aomin.org/Roman.html
 
This site exposes Catholic lies to cover up how the case of Pope Honorius refutes infallibility
http://aomin.org/failuretodocument.html

 
Read www.mostholyfamilymonastery.com
Read www.novusordowatch.org
Read www.the-pope.com/library.html
Read www.sedevacantist.com
Read www.trosch.org
Read http://www.geocities.com/prakashjm45/michaeline.html
Read http://www.sedevacantist.com/pontiffs.html This page shows how unsure the Catholic Church is of exactly how many popes it has had
Read http://www.sspxasia.com/Documents/SiSiNoNo/2003_March/errors_of_vatican_II.htm
Read http://www.sxws.com/charis/pope-20.htm for proof that the Church has no idea how many real or false popes it has had see also http://www.trosch.org/for/popes-ca.htm
http://www.catholicrestoration.org/
www.tracts.ukgo.com/loraine_boettner.htm

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